برغم الدلائل والقرائن العديدة التى تكشف المستور وتفضح ما يسمى بالاديان السماوية، سنجد دوما من يرفض وبشدة التخلى عن حلم الحياة بعد الموت فى عالم افضل، عالم ابدى لا يعرف الظلم والفقر والمرض والطغيان.. حتى لو كان الثمن هو تغييب العقل عن الواقع والانغماس العميق فى الاعتقاد بالخرافات والاساطير
ما اجمل الاحلام الوردية، ولكن عندما تتحول احلام اليقظة الى هوس جماعى تتوارثه الاجيال وتتناحر وتتحارب من اجله.. فهذا يعنى ان الواقع اصبح لا يطاق، وان الخوف والرهبة من اليوم والغد اصبحا هاجسا ثقيلا لا مفر منه سوى فى احلام اليقظة التى تفنن دجالى ومروجى الاديان بيعها للناس على مر السنين
فهذا رجل لص قاتل ذو صحيفة سوابق اجرامية يتحول الى نبى اسطورى ينقذ شعبه المختار، نبى يضرب بعصاه فينشق البحر ليمر شعبه دون ان يبتل.. كالعجل فى بطن امه! يا لها من معجزة تقشعر لها الابدان.. ثم ماذا؟ يصعد هذا النبى الى الجبل ليتلقى وصايا هذا الرب ويعود ليجد شعب الله المختار يعبد عجلا من الذهب! كما لو كانت معجزة العجل فى بطن امه لم تكفى شعب الله المختار ليؤمن به! أى غبى معتوه هذا الذى يمكنه تصديق رواية من هذا النوع الرخيص؟
فكر بعقلك ان كان لديك عقل واسأل نفسك: لو كنت انت احد هذا الشعب الذى انقذه موسى وشاهدت بأم عينك كيف شق البحر لتفر بجلدك من بطش اعداءك.. هل تكفر به وبربه وبمعجزته بهذه السرعة وتعبد عجل من الذهب؟
هل يصدق عقلك وحسك الواعى اسطوره بهذا القدر من السذاجة والعبط؟
أجدادنا الفراعنة دأبوا على تدوين وتسجيل كل شئ فى المعابد وعلى الآثار وفى بردياتهم ولم نجد أثر واحد أو بردية واحدة تشير الى قصة موسى من قريب أو بعيد! وحاول اليهود مرارا البحث عن دليل واحد يؤكد صدق رواية الخروج التوراتية.. فأخضعوا فى فرنسا سرا مومياء الملك رمسيس الثانى للفحوصات المعملية الدقيقة، أملين ان يثبتوا للعالم انه مات غرقا.. وليس هذا فحسب، بل مولوا سرا بعثات الى قرية قنتير التابعة لمركز فاقوس بمحافظة الشرقية والتى كانت عاصمة للملك رمسيس الثانى، وذلك بغرض البحث عن اى اثر يؤكد روايات التوراة، ولكنهم مرة اخرى لم يعثروا على اى دليل علمى أو أثرى، ولم يتم العثور على أى كتابات هيروغليفية على الاطلاق تشير الى هذا النبى المزعوم
فهل تصدق اسطورة موسى وخازوقه (عصاه) لان محمد النصاب الدجال سرقها من التوراة وكررها كالبغبغاء بالقرآن؟
لقد سرق الدجالين من معتقدات اجدادنا الفراعنة القديمة وتراثهم عن جهل بخبايا واسرار ورموز حضارة الفراعنة، وليتهم سرقوها كما هى دون سوء فهم وتحوير وتعديل، ولكن يبدو ان الله اعجبته ثقافة الفراعنه وبما انه إله من الهة العرب الاغبياء، فأخذ منها ما استطاع وباعها لشعبه المختار كما باعها لأحقر أمة اخرجت للناس
الفيلم التالى يلقى مزيدا من الضوء على حضارة الفراعنة والحضارات القديمة التى اخذت عنها والتى توضح ايضا المرد الاصلى للاديان، الفيلم مدته 46 دقيقة وعندما اجد متسع من الوقت سأقوم بترجمته ووضعه فى ركن الفيديو
Thursday, May 15, 2008
أصل الاديان
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كل كلامك صح 100% المصريون هم اللى بدعوا الاديان وخاصة السماوية منها, بدليل ان الاديان السماوية الثلاثة نزلولا حول مصر. فى مثلث من الارض طول ضاعة 1000 كم. ا>ا هكلن هناك اله بجد لما>ا لم ينزل رسالة واحدة فى أمريكا الجنوبية مثلآ او حتى فى أوربا اللى قدمنا دى. الموضوع أنكشف وبان واطلع ولك الامان ايها الغباء الانسانى الاسلامى ٍجاء قراءة المدونة energy-mass.blogsspot.com
Hi Nakneef
Sorry I could not finish my previous entry when I discovered your new entry, so I cdecided to move on with you to your new topic.
First of all, I do not share your views about Moses at all, perhaps because I look at him from a very different angle. let me take your points one by one:
1. you say he was a "a murderer": indeed, the old testament clearly states that Moses killed an Egyptian, but it states it as a fact, not as a divine inspiration to Moses to kill. In fact, It is clearly stated that a fellow Hebrew later rebuked him and told him when he tried to intervene in a fight between him and another Hebrew, that he murdered an Egyptian. as a result of that murder, Moses paid a very heavy price by having to run away for many years. ie he paid the price of his crime.
2. It is vital to imagine yourself in the position of Moses: you are an adopted prince, treated as the brother of the future Pharoah, the greatest ruler of the greatest empire on earth, when you realise that you are actually the son of Hebrew slaves, who were despised and treated like rubbish, considered impure according to the Egyptian religion... and then you decide to give it all away... all the earthly status, power, possessions and future to join your people and lead them to salvation from slavery.. how noble is that?
3. You correctly mention that ancient Egyptians never recorded the droning of Pharoah while chasing Hebrews: but they also never documented any of their defeats, which makes sense.
4. As for the exact date of exodus, 1Kings 6:1 states that Solomon began building the Temple in the fourth year of his reign, 480 years after the Exodus. Most bible scholars agree that the fourth year of Solomon's reign was 967 B.C. So the date of the Exodus can be calculated: 967 + 480 = 1447 B.C. And according to history, Pharaoh Ramesses did not begin his reign until around 1290 BC., so he couldn't have been the Exodus pharaoh. Depending upon which history book you read, there are two possible candidates. The first is pharaoh Amenhotep II who may have ruled from (1450-1425 B.C.). He was the son of Thutmose III, who ruled from either (1490-1450) or (1490-1436 B.C.), the other possible candidate. Scholars disagree as to the exact dates that these two men ruled which makes it difficult to pin point the exact one.
I can go into more details, but I do not want to post too much and then it becomes too boring to read.
Best wishes
Charles Martel اهلا
اشكرك على المداخلة وتأكد انى متفهم لدفاعك عن اسطورة موسى لانها البنيان الاولى للمسيحية.. كذلك للاسلام
فيما يخص دفاعك عن قتل موسى لمواطن مصرى واعتبارك ان هروب موسى وتوابعه تسقط عنه جريمته، فأعتقد انك انسان متسامح جدا ولكن.. الم يكن من الاحرى برب موسى ان يقول له فى الوصية السادسة: ‘‘لا تقتل’’ (خر 13:20) مرة اخرى؟ ام ان رب موسى لم يكن يعلم بجريمته؟
النقطة الثانية: دعنا نفترض صحة ما روج اليهود عن معاملة المصريين لهم كالعبيد، ودعنا نفترض ان موسى ضحى بالهروب معهم من مصر وليس بالهروب من عواقب جريمة القتل التى ارتكبها.. هل تجد انه من المنطقى ان يكفر به شعبه بمجرد ان يغيب عنهم ويعبدوا عجلا من الذهب؟
بأى منطق يتحول الناجون من العبودية ومعاملة المصريين الوحشية لهم على حد ادعائهم عن منقذهم موسى؟
واذا كان اليهود فعلا عبيدا لدى المصريين وعوملوا كما تقول معاملة قذرة.. فمن اين أتوا إذا بهذا الكم الهائل من الذهب لصناعة عجل من الذهب؟ سرقوه من المصريين مثلا قبل هروبهم ولهذا طاردهم المصريين، ام ان العبيد التى تعامل معاملة قذرة تكسب قوتها ويفيض لدرجة انهم يبتاعون حلى من الذهب تكفى لصناعة عجل للعبادة؟
النقطة الثالثة: تعال نفترض ايضا صحة ما روجه اليهود والمستشرقين الاستعماريين من ان المصريين لم يدونوا نكساتهم وازالوا ما شيده اسلافهم ولهذا لم نجد اثرا للآن عن موسى.. ألا ترى انه على اقل تقدير كان على اليهود ان يشيدو أثارا يرون عليها اسطورتهم بدلا من ان يدعوا انهم شيدوا الاهرام؟ أم انك تعتقد ان الرومان حطموا الاثار اليهودية بالمنجنيق كما كان جنود نابليون الكلب بونابرت يدكون الاثار المصرية بالمدافع ويهربون هم والانجليز ما استطاعوا حمله؟
النقطة الرابعة والاهم: لا يمكن يا عزيزى مزج الخرافات بالواقع، لان الخرافات والاساطير لا قدم لها.. ولكن.. الكسب الحقيقى من وراء هذه الاساطير هو الغرض الحقيقى من سردها
والغرض الحقيقى هو تكريث فكرة ان اليهود وجدوا على هذه الارض منذ الاف السنين.. وانا لست ضد هذه الحقيقة، لان اجدادنا الفراعنه لم يهينوا اليهود ولم يعاملوهم معاملة سيئة كما يدعى اليهود، الذى عامل اليهود معاملة سيئه وشردهم وقتلهم ونهب اموالهم وارضهم هم عربان شبه جزيرة بنى يعرب الذين شردوا وقتلوا ونهبوا يهود بنى النضير وقريظة وبنى قينقاع ويهود خيبر وفدك وغيرهم
اليهود لهم حق تاريخى اهملوه ولم يستردوه حتى الآن فى السعودية وارض السعودية ونفط السعودية، ومن الاحرى بهم استرداد حقوقهم المسلوبه بها الان.. لان الساكت عن حقه جبان
فهل يجب ان نذكر اليهود ان لهم حق تاريخى مغتصب فى السعودية واليمن والعراق؟
تحياتى واطيب امنياتى واتمنى ان تكون مداخلات الجميع بمستوى مداخلاتك
Thank you for your article, can I add something else? The Jews were living in Babylon (Iraq) when they decided to write (Tadween)the first few chapters of the Torah,they used to recite it in the past, their elders sat together and decided what to put inside that book, they took a lot of the Sumerian and Babylonian myths, like Noah's flood, which was the first epic story in history, the epic of Gilgamesh, where the Gods ask Atonabishtim to build an ark and fill it with pairs of all creatures on earth! also the myth of Adam and Eve, where I've seen a clay tablet at the Iraqi museum that shows a naked man standing in front of a naked woman and between them a date palm (not an apple tree) and behind the woman a snake! There are so many examples of such (thievery), but it would have been so nice if it was just myths or stories, Folklore as I call it, but when it turns to a religion that breeds fundamentalism and hatred then the story changes, then our role must come in exposing these stupid beliefs. Islam is like a potty that is filled with the excrements of Judaism and Christianity.
Historically there is no proof of the existance of person called Moses, or Musa. Please read about King Sargon of Akkad, another stolen story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad
He wrote about himself:
My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me.
Dear Nakneef
Thank you for your complement. I have tosay that I quite enjoy our debate, eventhough we significantly disagree. i`ll try to answer your points one by one:
1. I am not defending the factt that Moses murdered. nor does the Bible. do not forget that the murder took place before the ten commandments-which were given to .. Moses! The commandments were for mankind, not tailored for Moses, so there was no point in saying "do`nt kill - again!"
2. my reply for your second point is very simple: throughout the old testament the Lord speaks about the repeated betrayal of the Jewish people to his path and commandments. If you read the book of Exodus thoroughly (and I`m sure that you did) you will see that there were several (not one) occasions where the Jews revolted and blamed Moses for taking them out of Egypt (do not take my word for it, check it yourself). As a result, the Lord BANNED all of that generation from setting a foot in the promised land. So the answer to your point is clearly yes, they left the Lord to worship a pagan god (they were also imitating other people at the time who were idop-worshippers). as for the gold, the Jews "borrowed" it from the Egyptians before they left (again that is stated in the Old Testamant - no secrets at all!!) as a compensation for their years of slavery.
3. The opinion that the jews built the pyramids is a silly propaganda tool which has nothing to do with religion. The pyramids were not built by slaves. Full stop.
4. I was very surprised when you repeated the false pathetic islamic myth that Napoleon destroyed Egyptian monuments. That is a complete fabrication. Napoleon is the only invader in history who brought hundreds of scientists with him on a military mission. He was obcessed with Egyptian history, a very cultured Emperor in deed, and it is impossible for such a man to destroy antiquities. If you ever travelled in Europe, you will see monuments somehow related to Napoleon.
5. As for your views about Old testament stories, which you believe to be mythical, that needs another debate, as there`s a lot to say about that. But what I can say for now, is that I disdagree with your view that they serve no purpose> Indeed they do: faith makes you a kinder person, more gentle and caring about others, more loving and understanding. The Bible is quite clear about showing mercy and compassion. christianity is not about mythical beliefs or magical stories, it`s about loving and caring for others. You may not believe a single word in the Bible -which is fine by me- but I do not believe that we will disagree about the priciples of the Bible: love, mercy, compassion, sacrifice for others, forgiveness, charity, self discipline and also... reason
Best wishes..
رائع كعادتك يا استاذ نكنييف
بالحجه والمنطق السليم تضحض اكاذيبهم وادعائهم علي اجدادنا بالباطل وكم انا سعيد بالقراءه لك
Dear Zubaida
your entry is very interesting indeed, but it actually proves the exact opposite result yoyu reached: that Adam & Eve are not a mytgh, and so is the flooding, as here you have independant, non-Jewish sources reporting the same event.
Jewish historian Flavius Josephus used manuscripts available during his time to calculate that Noah's Flood occurred 1556 years after the creation of Adam. By adding the ages of the patriarchs listed in the Bible, other scholars have come up with roughly similar dates.
I must point out though, that according to the Bible, the Flood was 1656 years after Creation, which is regarded as more accurate than Josephus's dates.
As for fundamentalism, I fail to see any verses in the New Testament that endorses violence or hate. In fact, you never ever hear about any terrorist Jewish acts. Nowadays, terror is exclusively islamic... and the sad thing is that they are proud of it!!
best wishes
Hello Sit Zubaida
Thank you for your valuable input and welcome to the battle.
اهلا د. مجدى
شكرا على الاطراء وان كنت افضل المشاركة فى النقاش
على اى حال سعداء بوجودك معنا
Charles Martel
Slavery again and again!
Mr. Martel.. You said that Jews "borrowed" the gold from the Egyptians before they left as a compensation for their years of slavery, while it's no secrets at all that borrowing something mean to take and use something belonging to someone else with the intention of returning it! besides if you are a slave.. treated like rubbish as you mentioned earlier.. then.. how come you can borrow such amount of glod from your master?
You can't have it both ways Mr. Martel!
All the best
موسى اكبر نصاب خان البلد الذى اوته هى وقومه لمئات السنيين بدء نبوته المزعومه بقتل احد المصريين ومن ثم خيانته لفرعون الذى اوه فى بيته فهل هذا نبى او نصاب يرتدى عباءة الشرف....والف شكر على مدونتك الرائعه والى الامام دائما
Anonymous اهلا
موسى شخصيه وهميه اطلقها العبرانيين واخترعوا حولها اسطورة مولده ووضعه فى سلة وتربيته فى بيت فرعون مصر الى اخر الاسطورة وكلها خرافة لا اساس لها من الصحة ومجملها مسروق عن تراث الاكاديين والفراعنة والفخ الذى وقع فيه محمد انه إقتبس الاسطورة وذكرها بالقرآن على انها حقيقة، وهذه هى آفة الاسلام، القص واللصق من اديان اليهود والمسيحيين
لا احد ينكر ان بعض قبائل العبرانيين كانت تعمل فى موسم الحصاد وفى تصنيع حامل الاسهم من الخوص وجلود الحيوانات فى مصر وان الفراعنة لم يستعبدوهم، بل على العكس تماما فقد كرموهم واسكنوا بعض قبائل الاسرائيليين (الرحالة) فى الشمال الشرقى لمصر وكان اجدادنا الفراعنة يطلقون عليهم اسم الكنانيين نسبه لامتهانهم صناعة الكنان (جعب السهام) وتحولت التسمية الى الكنعانيين فيما بعد
شكرا للمداخلة
Dear Charles Martel,
When I mentioned fundamentalism I meant in all religions, I think we both agree that we find fundamentalists in all "holy" or "unholy" religions, the problem is that people tend to think that their way is the right way and the others are always wrong, and they don't stop at that, they want to enforce their beliefs on others, history if full of Christian and Muslim atrocities, as for Jewish ones, just listen to the ultra Orthodox Jews!!
As for the matter of "proving the exact opposite result", well, you missed the whole point, a myth is a myth, whether it was 5000 years old or 2000 years, if the Jews copied the Mesopotamian myths that does not prove the myths are right. I read about the great flood that affected the ancient world, but that does not prove the existence of Noah and the Arc! Floods were a common occurrence at that time, they did not have the dams we have now, the ancient Egyptians used to fear the anger of the Nile when it flooded and offered it/him sacrifices to spare them. And the story of Adam and Eve is what their simple minds came up with at those times, an easy explanation to where they came from; do you want us to believe it NOW? Do you believe that God made a statue of mud and blew on it and the statue became alive? And we, women, your partners are created from a crooked rib? If this is not a myth, tell me what it is?
If you believe that the Jews were slaves in Egypt, for your info, all men and women during ancient times were treated as slaves serving the king and his whims, at least in Egypt it was proved that they were being paid for their labour, but in other parts of the world they were simply used and abused, if a king decided to build a great monument he would definitely use his subjects, and it was common knowledge that ALL subjects belonged to the king. So the Jews were not different from the rest of the population at that time.
Charles,
People don't need a verse in their holy books to be fundamentalists! If you can find it in the quran, then you can say: well, their religion promotes it, but when a Christian becomes one and his religion advocates peace, then his sin is greater, he is going agaisnt his profit's teachigs.
You should listen to the American Evangelists, they scare me to death, they are a carbon copy of their Muslim brothers.
Oh, I forgot something very important, the commandments! please refer to the code of Hamurabi, the Babylonian king, of course, like Moses he claimed that the God "Shamash" gave him the laws, the funny thing is some of the laws that are copied word by word, an eye for an eye as an example. You can read the whole laws here:
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
Why is it they always claim that the Gods or God instructed them? Why can't they claim it to themselves? Maybe because their subjects would believe it if it came from a higher being, Baal, El, Yahweh, Allah, etc...
Moses came up with 10 commandments while Hamurabi concocted 282, but mostly they were judicial.
Dear Nakneef
Thank you for taking time to reply to my humble remarks.
I intentionally put "borrowed" between inverted commas which is our way in England to signify that this is a contested, so you should not have taken it literally.
In any case, lets go back to the original text which is Exodus (12:35 and 36), as it offers a clear explanation for your remark: "(35)The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. (36) The LORD had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for" So, this means that the Lord changed the heart of the Egyptians towards their slaves. We believe that God is all powerful and He can do anything and everything. So he could easily change the heart of man. The Bible is full of events about God`s intervention. Of course, I do not expect you to believe that, because if you did, we would not be having this debate. This is a matter of faith.
* Please note that the only historical text available here, is the Old testament. I am not aware of any mention of Moses at any other historical text.
kind regards
Dear Sit Zubeida
Thank you for taking the time to reply. It is such pleasure to have an interesting debate about religion with people from the middle east without swearing, abuse, etc.. I wish to thank Nakneef for allowing me to use his space to reply.
You raised several issues: the first one is your belief that Adam & Eve, creation, Noah and the flood, etc.. were all myths, regardless whether they were mentioned in the Bible or any other text. While I accept that belief is subjective, You can not claim to be objective if you dismiss several historical texts, and the Bible is a significant historical text regardless of your belief, in view of the fact that the oldest scriptures we have date back to c300 BC.
The second point you raised is "fundamentalism in each religion": the core issue here is the text: are there any verses in that religion that endorse violence / hatered / racism / etc.. because you have to appreciate that humans are corrupt and vulnerable and they are capable of changing any noble cause to an act of eil (examples: animal rights activists in Europe, leftists supporting terrorism in the name of fighting oppression). So the bottom line is the ideology itself, not the actions of its followers.
The third point you raised was, and I quote" all men and women during ancient times were treated as slaves serving the king and his whims " That is a generalised term which is false. For example Ancient Greece was a republic. as for oriental kings like Pharoah, he was revered by his subjects as a god/semigod but they were not his slaves. (perhaps Nakneef can elaborate on that)
The fourth point raised is simple, while it is relatively easy to dismiss all Biblical knowledge as myth, can you offer an alternative explanation for creation of the universe, creation of man, death, eternity? what evidence would support your theory?
kind regards
My dear Charles, I am the one who is surprised that a believer is not abusing us and swearing at us, which is the usual thing to do in the Middle East! You should hear the names I've been called just because I hold different beliefs, my poor dead mother had her share of the abuse.
Now about slavery in ancient times, you answered it, Greece was a democracy, all citizens were free, but in our parts of the worlds the ruler is a God, or Son of God, or God appointed him, and what are we but Slaves of God? even our names nowadays are reflection of that, Abd Allah, Abdul Rahman, etc...so when the ruler is depicted as a God, the citizens immidiately became his slaves. What I don't understand is why do you want to prove that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt? is it because it was written in the old testement? and in your view whatever is written in the bible, old and new is a fact? there are plenty of historical errors in the bible, go to this site and they will explain some of the falacies:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
As for the matter of death, do you know that religions started because of the fear of death and the unknown and the disbelief that we will die and that's it! we can't imagine that this life is the only one we've got, and when we die we will be forgotton, in my openion I will be usuful one day as a fertelizer, but others hope for eternal life after death, the spirit, the reward and punishment, etc..they don't want to accept the idea that in death we will all be equals, the rich and poor, the good and evil, the saint and the sinner, there is no heaven and hell! I chose to believe in that as it made sense to me, but millions around the world chose the other path of believing in the mythical Janna and Jahannam, by the way, Jahannam exists nowadays in Israel, it is a valley called Hannam where they used to throw the garbage and dead animals and maybe humans and burned it, it smelled horrible and was very hot, thus we have Jahannam.
I believe in science, it makes sense, I am not a scientific person, but when someone explains the big bang, I believe him more than the children's stories about Adam and Eve, and walking on water, Daniel and the lions and Lot's wife who turned into a statue of salt (only if there was a scientific explanation).
Everyone here just talk about the making of the golden calf without any reference to how were the many pieces of gold were melted and shaped like that in the middle of the desert???
Does anyone here have any idea the amount of heat to be produced in order to melt gold, then shape in a statue like figure???
This is absurd!!! How can the Jews deny God after food landed on them from heaven and the sea was split for their own eyes?
Too many naive stories that could be only believed by those with an IQ of 100 and below...
And one last question "God's chosen people"!!! I wonder what was the criteria of this choice? Yahweh strikes again, firstly he caused the first bloodshed in the world by accepting one offering over the other from the famous brothers, then choosing a certain race over all races just to create jealousy and hate!!!
Get my drift?
All_Brains
الظاهر ان المناقشة حميت وعايزة اقول كلمتين معلش يا نكنييف ان حستعير كلامك لاني مش قادرة استوعب ليه دايما ودايما ابدا الجماعه الدينيين معندهمش مانع يظهرو بمظهر الساذجين!! بجد مش فاهمه ازاي حد تتوسم فيه العقل في سطرين والسطرين اللي بعدهم يقلب 180 درجه!! يعنى ايه مشيئة الله؟؟ انا نفسي افهم هو الله ده عبيط ولا ايه حكايته بالظبط؟
الاستاذ تشارلز مارتن بيقول في رده عليك ان الله حنن قلب المصريين على اليهود علشلن يدوهم الدهب اللي عملو بيه العجل اللي عبدوه! طب هو الله عبيط اوي كده وماكنش عارف ان اليهود حيعملو بالدهب ده عجل دهب احلى واغلى منه وحيعبدوه؟ بلاش دي طب الله وهو بيتسامر مع موسى عالجبل ماخدش باله ان شعبه المختار قاعد يعبد في عجل يا حرام وبدل ما يسيبهم يرتكبو الذنب ده مش كان من باب اولى يحنن قلبهم زى ماحنن قلب المصريين وينبه شعبه المختار مايرتكبش المعصيه الفظيعة دي؟؟
بجد انا كل ما بقرالك يانكنييف بحس قد ايه ان كان قلبي طيب وبصدق اي عبط فى الدين بتاعنا لكن دلوقني فوقت وعرفت ان عيب نسلم نفسنا للناس اللي ملهاش هم غير تخدير عقولنا
مخبيش عليك انا كنت ناويه اتنصر لاني حسيت ان المسيحيين دينهم سلمي وصلواتهم بسيطه وفيها مناجاة من القلب صادقة ومفيهاش التكلف والاستعباد اللي فى دينا لكن قرايتي لمدونتك نبهتني ماقعش في اى فخ بسهوله وانا مديونالك بدي وبشكر الظروف اللي عرفتني طريق مدونتك
لما بقرا ردود اللي بيشتموك واللي بيبررو خرافات دينهم بيبقى عندي حساس مركب اوقات بيصعبم عليا واوقات بحس انهم يستاهلو لانهم مش عايزين يشغلو مخهم
مليون شكر لك يا نكنييف
To all the dear brothers and sisters who left their remarks on my input I wish to thank you. I have to admit that it will be very difficult for me to address each one as it would take me a few hours!
It is clear that we speak at different wave lengths. Unfortunately none of you answered my question: I said that I believe in the Bible as a valid historical explanation of creation. I asked you for your explanation and you ignored that. The Big bang theory by Hawkins has nothing to do with human creation.
As for the fact that Babylonian laws, I will also add to your remark that Egyptians had their code of laws before the ten commandments. God created us with conscience, which explains the fact that even people with no biblical knowledge whatsoever (such as buddhists) can do good. BUT, the ten commandments alone do not offer salvation. They represernt the absolute basic minimum for human decency.
One of the remarks mentioned that the Bible stories can only be believed by children or idiots. Not so... unless you believe that people like Newton or Lincoln idiots. What you do not know is that I have an MBA from a top British university and I manage a multimillion pound business - despite believing those simple Bible stories!
Speaking of death, do you believe in justice? do you believe that Hitler and Stalin will end up in the same place as mother Teresa? Does not life teach you that "the wage of sin is death" ? By the way, I have no interest in/and I am not qualified to preach you or any one else. I`m just sharing my thoughts with you. You have every right to be agnostic/athiest/whatever, as long as you let me worship in peace. Unfortunately, if you ever lived in Europe, you will know full well the result of absence of religion: soaring crime, broken families, drugs, prostitution, corruption, etc.. The west is decaying because of its athiesm while the east is exploding from fundamentalism.. Its a crazy world!
best wishes
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الَأرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلاَفٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوا مِنَ الَأرْضِ. صدق الله العظيم
يومك قادم يا نكنييف لا محاله وسنقيم عليك حد الحرابة وإن الغد لناظره لقريب حنجيبك حنجيبك
الست هالة شايفه ان صلاة المسيحيين احسن من صلاتناّ!!!!!! وكنتي ياختي حتعبدي انهو اله فيهم الاب ولا الابن ولا الروح القدس؟؟؟؟؟ اخرب انت بس عقول المسلمين يا نكنيف ونهايتك سوده انشاء واحد احد
ذنبهم في رقبتك ليوم الدين
Mr Maraghi
Have you ever been to school? have you ever read a serious book about Christianity or are you repeating a couple of sentences you were taught at the local mosque like a parrot?
Let me advise you: Do not show your ignorance here.
I have full respect for Nakneef and the other athiests/agnostics in this website, eventhough I significantly disagree with their views. The reason is simple: They are intelligent and knowledgeable, so we can have a sensible discussion. Unfortunately the same can not be said about yourself and Mr sword of islam (stupid name by the way, as it confirms the terrorist stereotype and the satanic nature of that faith... next time try to think of something more intelligent, preferrably not violent!)
best wishes
محمود المراغى
انت ليه بتسفه فى دين غيرك برغم ان دينك لا يخلو من التفاهات والمتناقضات؟
زى ما فى الاسلام سنه وشيعه وقرآنيين واحمدية، ده غير الطوائف.. وهابية وسلفيه ورفاعيه وسمسمية وحمصية، يوجد فى المسيحية كاثوليك وارثوزوكس وبروتستانت.. ده غير الطوائف.. يعنى الاختلاف موجود
فيا ترى حضرة جنابك قريت فى اناجيل المسيحية وفهمت المكتوب فيها ولا هو تسفيه بدون علم كعادة المسلمين؟
كلامى ليس دفاع عن المسيحية او تأكيد على صحة ما ورد فيها ولكن رد على كلامك للانسه هاله، الثالوث مفهوم غير سليم للانجيل لان الانجيل ورد به ما ينفى صحته ويؤكد على وحدانية الله بل ورد ايضا ما يؤكد ان المسيح ليس إله
فيقول فى (تث 6:4) إسمع يا إسرائيل الرب إله واحد
وفى (أش 45:5) أنا الرب وليس آخر لا إله سواى
وقد سرقها محمد بالنص ووضعها فى قرآنه
أما ما يؤكد ان المسيح ليس إله فنجد فى انجيل يوحنا امثله عديده منها
(يو 30:5) أنا لا اقدر أن افعل من نفسى شيئا
وفى (يو 16:7) تعليمى ليس لى بل للذى أرسلنى
وان لم يكن هذا يكفى فهناك شهادة اخرى ليسوع بأنه لا يمكن ان يكون الله حيث يقول فى (يو 28:14) لآن أبى أعظم منى
فقبل ان تسفه دين غيرك عن جهل راجع دينك انت وحاول فهمه ربما تكتشف انك مؤمن بوهم لا اساس له من الصحة
Anonymous Or (Charles Martel)...
A small correction, Abe Lincoln was an atheist and this is his quote on religion:
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
I am an atheist, you are a believer, we are both free to worship or not worship a creator, but that does not mean I am forcing you to change your beliefs, we are merely discussing the matter of the biblical stories of creation and the concept of God, if ou choose to believe in them that is your option, I don't.
Yes, I do believe that Hitler, Staling and mother Theresa are equal now, they are all dead, what matters is their memories and what they did in this life, both men are remembered as vicious and evil, and she is remembered for her good deeds. I don't claim to know what's beyond that, as you also can't claim that there is a place where they will be rewarded or punished, your information came from a book, and you chose to believe every word written in this book, I don't, in my view it is unbelievable. You are searching for redemption and salvation, and you feel content that your religion and belief gave you that, I don't, I believe that we get our salvation ourselves, we have a brain and we use it to find out the truth, and the truth does not mean who created this world, or what is God, or where will we end up after death, it is how to live our lives on this earth in peace and harmony with each other, how to do good. You mentioned that the absence of religion in the west resulted in soaring crime, broken families, drugs, prostitution and corruption; please tell me what the inabsence of religion did to Iraq? selling their own children for prostitution, killing for a peace of bread, hatred and corruption, this is one example, look at all the countries that claim to be following the will and teachings of God, are they perfect? Maybe your belief made you a better man, but this is an individual case, religion never created a perfect society, on the contrary, it resulted in wars and destruction, and it won’t change, it will continue to meddle in people’s minds and create chaos in the name of God however his name is spelled
You said “I said that I believe in the Bible as a valid historical explanation of creation. I asked you for your explanation and you ignored that”! But I did send you a link on this subject that shows all the errors and invalid historical event. Here it is again:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
http://www.freethoughtdebater.com/tenbiblecontradictions.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/Contra/index.html
http://www.allaboutworldview.org/bible-errors-faq.htm
Best regards,
سيف الاسلام محمود المراغى
هو هذا الذي قدرتو عليه؟ نهايتك سوده و وسنقيم عليك حد الحرابة وإن الغد لناظره لقريب حنجيبك حنجيبك, تصحيح نحوي: إن غد لناظره قريب. إن اثبتوا شيئا فهو عدم قدرتكم على مجرد قراءة ما يناقض افكارك, و التجاءكم الى التهديد و هو سلاح الضعفاء, و بالنهاية تثبيت الفكرة السائدة عن الاسلام و المسلمين بأنهم قوم قساة يتلذذون بقطع ا لرقاب .
Charles,
You said that The Big bang theory by Hawkins has nothing to do with human creation? It has evrything to do with creation. If you search the web, just type creation and the big bang you will get hundreds of links discussing this matter from both sides, the believers and and skeptics or atheists.
But the truth is you and I will believe what we want to believe, no biblical fact will make me believe in the creation according to God, and no scientific theory will make you believe the opposite.
نكنييف الحنون said...
محمود المراغى
انت ليه بتسفه فى دين غيرك برغم ان دينك لا يخلو من التفاهات والمتناقضات؟
...................
شوف ياعم النكنييف
ما انته من يوم ما فتحت المدونة بتاعتك دي وانته نازل تسفيه في كل ماهو مقدس لا عاجبك لا الاسلام ولا المسيحية والان تنكر اليهودية من الاساس
طيب ماهي ديانتك انت حتي نقارنها بديننا ومن هو الخالق الحقيقي الذي تدعيه وزعمته لنا سابقا واسميته الخالق الحقيقي
واين يوجد في السما ولا في الارض ولا تحت الارض ولافين بالظبط واسمه ايه وضروري جدا موضوع الاسم لان مش معقول اله يخلق كل الكون والاكوان دي كلها وميكنلوش اسم
ومش معقول برده يعني ماارسلش ولا رسول من يوم ما خلق الدنيا
ثانيا
موضوع البوست بتاعك دة بتنكر فيه اليهودية من الاساس وبالتالي كما ذكرت انها اساس وبنيان المسيحية اذن فلا مسيح ولامسيحية من الاساس
فلماذا دفاعك عن المسيحين والتحجج بوجود طوائف ومذاهب طيب ما الاسلام زي انته ما قلت مذاهب وطوائف الايشفع له ذلك كشفعه للمسيحية
حلال هنا وحرام هناك
اولم يقيم المسيحيون حروبا صليبية تحت رعاية الكنيسة الم تقرأعن جرائم الصليبيين في بيت المقدس
الايوجد لديك سبب واحد لمهاجمة المسيحية مثل هجومك علي الاسلام
وماتقوليش ان السبب ان الناس دي عايشين في هدوء ومابيعلقوش ميكروفونات ومابيعملوش دوشة
كل الاسباب اللي انته قلتها قبل كده كلام فاضي
هات لي اسباب مقنعة
بتقولي اسلام بني علي مسيحيه ومسيحية بنيت علي يهودية
ويهودية انت انكرتها من الاساس فلا اديان سليمة
يبقي المساواة في الظلم عدل ويبقي الهجوم ع الكل عدل
......
بمناسب التاريخ وتدوينة
الم تقرأ قبل ذلك في تاريخ اجدادنا الفراعنة ان بعض الفراعنة كانوا يمحون بعض من اعمال وفتحوات سابقيهم
وينسبوها الي انفسهم
اليس واردا ان الذي اتي بعد رمسيس الثاني تعمد محو ذكر موسي او عدم ذكرة من الاساس
...............
للاسف يانكنييف
طريقتك انت في التفكير والطعن في الاديان
هي التي تدعو الي السخرية والغثيان
انا لااري سوى انسان يحقد علي دين وامه بأكملها
الاديان السماوية مثل المطر ... ينزل من السماء لكن أصلة الارض. وسلامى لكل المؤمنين المغفلين.
Anonymous آنسه أو استاذ
ردى على كلام محمود المراغى ماكنش دفاع عن المسيحية ولكن تصحيح لمفهومه عنها فيما يخص موضوع الثالوث. انتهى
ثانيا ماتنساش انى كنت مسلم وقارى وباحث بعين فاحصة وعقل واعى لكل ما جاء بالاسلام او يمت اليه بصلة، وده يمكن سبب تفهمى للاسئلة المكررة والسطحية الغالبة على معظم تعليقات المسلمين
لو حضرتك معتقد فعلا انى حاقد على الاسلام والمسلمين تبقى بنيت رأيك عن جهل بى تماما كجهلك بخبايا دينك، لان نشاطى الاجتماعى بيمس قاعدة عريضة جدا من المسلمين ذوى الاحتياجات الخاصة، وتعاملى معهم كمواطنين مصريين ومن منظور انسانى بحت
ارجع لاسئلتك عن خالق الكون، واضح انك كونت فكرة خاطئة عن ماهية الخالق اللى اتكلمت عنه فى اكثر من حوار ومقال، يا عزيزى لا ادرى من اين بلورت فكرتك عن اعتقادى بأن الخالق الحقيقى هو شيئ له ذات او قوة خارقة لها صفات وكينونة وبالتالى يحتويه مكان وزمان؟
ثم لماذا الاصرار على ان هذا الخالق لابد وان يرسل رسول فى صورة شخص يخبرنا عنه؟ الا تكفيك كل الخرافات والاختلافات التى وردت بالاديان والكم الهائل من مدعى النبوة والمرسلين الكاذبين.. وكل الخلافات والنزاعات والحروب والبشاعات التى ارتكبت بإسم الاديان.. كل الاديان؟ هل انت سعيد بهذا الكم الهائل من الانبياء والرسل التى تعتقد ان الخالق ارسلهم ولهذا تصر على ان يكون للخالق الحقيقى رسول او انبياء؟
هل سألت نفسك ولو مره واحدة: ماذا لو كنت أؤمن بخرافات؟ هل حاولت ان تبحث فى الاسلام وتقرأ بعمق وبعين فاحصة باحثة عن اخطاء وشبهات؟ ام انك اكتفيت بما ورثت عن اباءك واجدادك؟
تحدثت عن تاريخ الفراعنة.. فهل تعلمت تاريخهم من الحاسدين والحاقدين ام تعلمت لغتهم وقرأت كل ما وقعت عينك عليه من مخطوطاتهم ونقوشهم وقارنت بنفسك وبحثت بعين فاحصة باحثة عن الحقيقة؟
هل تعتقد فعلا ان الفراعنة محو اى اثر لموسى؟! الم يكن من الاولى ان تسأل نفسك لماذا لم يسجل العبرانيين اى شيئ وكل شيئ عن موسى؟ طالما كان لديهم القدرة على صنع عجل من الذهب الم يكن من البديهى تكريم نبيهم ومنقذهم وتبجيله ببناء عدة اثار تحكى قصته.. ام انه من الاسهل اتهام الفراعنة؟
تأكد ان السخرية والغثيان هم ما اشعر به فى احيان كثيره كلما تذكرت انى كنت مسلم
وقف في زورك كلام الراجل عن المسيحية ودافعت عنها يكونشي المسلمين هما اللي قالوا ان عيسى ابن الله!!! جابوها منين ماهو من الانجيل ولا دي كمان خادوها من الفراعنة!!! يا عم اتقي الله
اهلا يا اسطى محمد
الحوار مش خبط وزق، انا قولت اللى فهمته من قرايتى للانجيل ومخطوطات البحر الميت ومخطوطات نجع حمادى، وبعدين لقب ابن الله مأخوذ بالفعل عن التراث الفرعونى والمقصود بيه مش ابن الخالق من صلبه زى ما انت وغيرك متصور، ده لقب بيعبر عن قرب الشخص جدا مما يعتقد انه الخالق، ومتستغربش ان قولتك ان لقب ابن الله كان دارج جدا عند الفراعنة
رمسيس مثلا اسم دارج عند اخوانا المسيحيين وهو اسم فرعونى كما تعلم، لكن يا ترى عارف معناه ايه؟ معناه إبن الرب.. را (رع) معناها الرب او الله و مسيس معناها ابن، وان صادف وشوفت تمثال رمسيس او صوره للتمثال امامية حتلاقى كرتوشه فرعونية على كتفه الشمال مكتوب عليها ابن الرب
تحياتى
I think that the concept of father and son is misunderstood, or maybe it was intentionally changed by the people who came after Jesus, when he said he is the son of God, (if he really said so), he didn't mean HE alone is his son, he meant all humans, as when he was asked by his disciples: how do we pray to God? he taught them this:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name! Which means all humans are children of God, not only him.
Furthermore, when we criticize religions, we include ALL religions, we do not exclude one in favor of the others, so there is no need to argue with us, atheists on which one is better, they are all similar, they didn't come up with anything different, a quick look at the old testament shows you how similar the "stories" are in the Quran, of course the New testament did not delve in the stories as it was considered a continuation of the Jewish faith, Jesus didn't want eradicate the Jewish faith "he was Jewish" and a rabbi, he was a revolutionary who only wanted to make few changes, in my view Christianity is a Jewish sect, the Roman empire created this new religion and called it Chiristianity.
Many thanks for your comment on my blog Nakneef.
I will be in Egypt in Oct. Any chance that we may be able to have some contact?
Regards
All_Brains
All_Brains اهلا
اشكرك على دعوتك وتأكد انه يسعدنى لقاءك والترجيب بك فى مصر، لكن كلى ثقة بتفهمك انه ربما لن تسمح الظروف الحالية بذلك
على اى حال اهلا بك فى مصر، وان سمحت الظروف سأوافيك برقم تليفونى
خالص تحياتى
نكنييف انت نفيت ان رمسيس الثاني هو فروعون موسي المذكور في التوراة وأنا قريت إن امنحتب الرابع هو فرعون الخروج وبما ان واضح انك ملم بتاريخ الفراعنة ممكن اعرف ايه معلوماتك
علي فراج
اهلا على
اسمع يا اخ على، ممكن تسأل نفسك سؤال بسيط.. هل كان صعبا على كاتب او كاتبى التوارة ان يذكروا اسم هذا الفرعون ان كانت هذه الاساطير حقيقة وليست من تأليف خيال مريض؟
إذا.. طالما فشل الله ونبيه موسى فى معرفة اسم هذا الفرعون ولهذا لم يذكروه.. فهل تصدق تخاريف مؤرخهم يوسيبيوس؟ الرواية برمتها اكذوبه وللاسف يروج بعض المصريين المحسوبين على هيئة الاثار لعدة اسماء من بينها امنحتب الرابع، ووصلت بهم التفاهة لعرض جثة مكسورة الذراع لمومياء مجهولة الهوية على انها ربما تكون مومياء فرعون موسى
يا سيدى الفاضل لو ان موسى عاش فى مصر وعانى ما ادعاه اليهود وحقق انتصارا على فرعون مصر فلماذا لم يخبرنا عن اسم هذا الفرعون؟
خرافات الاديان عديدة وكلها من صنع بشر جاهل.. واليك مثال اخر على جهل كتبة الاديان وتخريفهم: الله بجلالة قدره فى سورة الاعراف آيه رقم 137 يفضح جهله المدقع فيقول: وَدَمَّرْنَا مَا كَانَ يَصْنَعُ فِرْعَوْنُ وَقَوْمُهُ وَمَا كَانُواْ يَعْرِشُونَ. فما رأيك؟ استمد الله معلوماته المتواضعة من تجار الخردة العرب ولصوص القوافل والقبور الذين اخبروا محمد ابن امنه انه لم يعد هناك اثر لما شيد الفراعنة فصدقهم! الجاهل المسكين
يا عزيزى لا يوجد لا فرعون دخول ولا فرعون خروج! للمرة الاخيرة القصة برمتها خرافة
تحياتى وشكرا للثقة والسؤال
نكنييف:
أنا متابع لمدونتك منذ فترة ومستمتع بقراءة آرائك المضادة لغسيل الأمخاخ.
ممكن تذكر باختصار العلاقة بين الفيلم المعروض وهذه التدوينة (أصل الأديان)؟
أعجبني في الفيلم موضوع النظام الشمسي الثنائي.
شكرا
Dear Nakneef
Sorry I was not able to respond to comments as I waas busy for the last few days.
First of all, I agree with Sit Zubaida fully that we have a totally different approach to religion and I do not believe that either of us will convince the other, no matter what evidence is used. Having said that, I have some remarks:
1. You incorrectly mentioned that Abraham Lincoln was an athiest: that is not correct: Lincoln was, in the words of biographers James Randall and Richard Current, "a man of more intense religiosity than any other President the United States has ever had." He spoke of God often and in many different ways—William J. Wolf counted thirty-three different expressions, like "Almighty Being" or "Father of Mercies," in Lincoln's Collected Works. After the death of his 4-year-old son, Edward, in 1850, he regularly attended Presbyterian churches in Springfield and Washington, pastored by doctrinal conservatives. Yet he never became a member of any congregation.
Once again, I repeat that the big bang theory does dot discuss or explain human creation, it is an entirely physical theory about the creation of the universe.. and it remains a theory! Please also note that several physicists complained that the beginning of time implied by the Big Bang imported religious concepts into physics; this objection was later repeated by supporters of the steady state theory. This perception was enhanced by the fact that Georges Lemaître, who put the theory forth, was a Roman Catholic priest.
And finally, the point you mentioned about the mess in Iraq being caused by religion:
1. religion should NEVER be used as a political tool. Religion is an INDEVIDUAL relationship between man and God.
2. Islam is an entirely polititicized movemebt without an ounce of spirituality. Any faith that promotes death (suicide bombings) is nothing but a sick cult. Expect a lot more death and destruction in the rest of the Middle east as a result of "islamic awakening"!
3. I can claim with significant ease that athiesm resulted in massacres of millions of people: Stalin, Mao, pol Pot and Ceacescu offer excellent examples to validate my point!
So what is the solution? simple, a secular state, where religion is a personal matter (which is the case in countries like Ireland and Poland, but not in countries like UK or France).
best wishes
اهلا ايمن
اصل الاديان هى الشمس، انها المرد الاصلى للاديان الذى شد انتباه البشر الى العلى وهذا ما يتحدث عنه الفيلم، سواء كان عن علم بكينونة الشمس وعلاقتها بالارض والاجرام الاخرى كما هو الحال فى حضارة الفراعنة (تقديس الشمس) التى اخذت عنها كل الحضارات بسبب تأثير الشمس الفعلى على الحياة، او عن جهل كما هو الحال عند العرب
Dear Nakneef
I hope you`re well. It`s always a pleasure to read your remarks despite our disagreement, as it enriches the discussion.
As for your remark about not mentioning the name of Pharoah in the Torah, which according to your argument makes it false, then presumably mentioning the names of Nebuchadnezzar, Sanharib and Cyrus and associated details of their wars against the kingdoms of Judea and Israel makes it valid... right?!
Then, what`s your problem with Flavius Josephus? lol! Why do you hate the poor man so much? If you disagree with his chronicles (which can be correlated against contemporary Roman texts in the first century AD) then you should be able to provide alternative text(s) that refute his work.
As for the Pharoah`s names, I mentioned to you in a previous entry the possible names of the pharoah of Exodus, and I`ll mention now the possible names of the Pharoah of Joseph: It was probably a Hyksos monarch before whom Joseph stood as an interpreter of dreams (Gen. 41:14-37) and who later ceded a choice parcel of land (Goshen) to Joseph's family (Gen. 47:6). According to such a theory, the "new king" of Exodus 1:8 would have been one of the native Egyptian monarchs of the New Kingdom who, as part of his Hyksos purge, resolutely refused to recognize the validity of the Goshen land grant. Discerning in the Israelites a multitude who might very well join with his Asiatic enemies in war, this new king moreover acted quickly to enslave the Israelites.
The above-mentioned theory also fits well with the historical profile attested in the book of Genesis. The patriarchs moved in and through Palestine for some 215 years (cf. Gen. 12:4; 21:5; 25:26; 47:9), seemingly with the greatest of ease, mobility and freedom. Yet, it is inconceivable that their movements should have gone unnoticed (e.g., Gen. 14:14). That bespeaks a political climate in Palestine that would have been free from any sort of national or international domination, which is truly characteristic of that period between 1850 and 1550 B.C. The theory might also humanly explain how Joseph, a non-Egyptian, was able to rise to a position of Grand Vizier in a foreign land -- the court itself would not have been Egyptian, but Hyksos. It also might explain why there is no historical mention of Joseph.
An interpretation of Exodus 12:40 does impinge upon our discussion, and it must be addressed at least briefly. Does the mention there of 430 years designate the amount of time that the Israelites spent in Egypt or in Canaan and Egypt. Prior statement should make it clear that we have given historical and textual preference to the latter view (cf. Gen. 15:13; Gal. 3:17). And, accordingly, we could advocate that the patriarchal sojourn in Egypt took place between approximately 1660 and 1445 B.C. and that the patriarchal sojourn in Canaan encompassed approximately the dates 1875-1660 B.C. Thus, some 430 years elapsed while the early Israelites lived in Canaan and Egypt.
This would mean that Joseph was promoted about 1670 B.C., in the middle of the Hyksos occupation of Egypt. But it is impossible to identify the individual before whom Joseph appeared, because the dating and succession of Hyksos kings remains indemonstrable today. In addition, the Bible provides virtually no clues for the length of time the Israelites suffered under Egyptian bondage, so it seems hazardous to speculate on the identity of the pharaohs of Exodus 1:8, aside from identifying him as a native Egyptian. The biblical narrative locates the beginning of the Israelite trek at the city of Ra'amses (Ex. 12:37; cf.1:11), from which they journeyed first to Succoth (13:20), then to Etham, to Pi Hahiroth (14;2, between Migdol and the sea, opposite Baal-zephon), finally to the body of water where the biblical parting of the waters took place (cf. Num. 33:5-8).
There is a lot more evidence that I could site (archeological findings, etc..) but I think that`s enough, as it`s becoming too boring!
best wishes
شبهة التشابه بين المسيحية والديانات الوثنية-رد اكاديمى
http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=2339&cat=24&scat=40&
http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=2363&cat=24&scat=40&
http://www.islameyat.com/post_details.php?id=2390&cat=24&scat=40&
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